The Freelancer Life: Meet Mac&Moore
Welcome to The Freelancer Life, a series of interviews which focus on community over competition in a bid to open up the freelance community and help you feel a little less alone. It’s also a chance for some shit hot freelancers to share their highs, their lows and gives them a chance to reflect on all they’ve achieved since going freelance.
This female marketing duo have been huge supporters of Jess and I and are big inspirations too so we could think of no one better to interview for The Freelancer Life this International Women’s Day than Jess and Nat of Mac&Moore. We talk to them about their Manifesto ‘equality with attitude’ and how the agency model and burn-out culture is seriously broken.
Hello Jess and Nat and welcome to The Freelancer Life!
Let’s start by finding out a little bit about Mac&Moore:
Nat: We are a marketing duo who founded Mac&Moore in 2016. Operating as a plug-in CMO service for start-ups and businesses mainly in the B2B space, we help founders and senior management teams drive transformation and achieve their goals through creative and strategic marketing across multiple channels. We also have a connected network of best-in-class freelancers who we can plug into and build out a bespoke team that will be best for the job in-hand.
Why did you become freelance?
Jess: Truth talk? The start-up we were both working for went into liquidation. I’d been thinking for years about starting up on my own but didn’t have the confidence or the right business partner to do it! We haven’t looked back since.
Nat: The process of losing one job and gaining a business partner has taught me a lot about trusting your gut when something feels right at the time, no matter how scary it feels. I never had the confidence to believe I could create something for myself before, but there was something about the timing that stopped me from talking myself out of it and just giving it a go!
You talk about ‘equality with attitude’ on your website and we’re totally signed up to your Manifesto with CLO PR “Thinking is good. Talking is great. Doing is best.”
Can you tell us why these things matter so much to you and how they’ve become intrinsic to the work you do as Mac&Moore?
Jess: To create the best work you need to have diverse, open-minded and disruptive thinking. We put together a manifesto so that we didn’t just put up empty inspiring Instagram quotes with little or no meaning. We wanted to challenge ourselves to create the change we wanted to see in the world. It’s easy to talk the talk but we wanted to showcase how important it is to translate your words into positive actions.
Nat: Carving out our own path in the world of business has opened my eyes to the many layers of inequality and discrimination that still exist, even in a landscape where so many voices are being heard shouting for change. It was always incredibly important to both Jess and I to not just work in a vacuum but to try and use any profile we built as a power for good. There’s still such a long way to go and I’m always learning, but hopefully through our own business we can continue creating opportunities for others in a way we wouldn’t be able to do if we were working for other people rather than ourselves.
There seems to be an increase in the number of people going freelance and working for themselves at the moment – why do you think this is?
Jess: In our industry (marketing and advertising) I truly believe the agency model is broken. This quote from a recent Digiday article hits the nail on the head:
Agency staffers are reporting high levels of burnout and being worried about their mental health. For some, it’s linked to the very nature of the agency industry itself — hectic and relentless, dependent upon client whims and, these days, fraught with layoffs and other uncertainty.
Is it any wonder people are stepping away and putting themselves first when agencies seemingly value the work over their talent? Freelancing offers the opportunity to be your own boss, set healthy boundaries and allows you to take back control of your life (if done in the right way).
From what we see on Instagram in particular, you have the networking thing down! How important do you think it is to network as freelancers and what benefits have you seen from it on your own business?
Jess: The best part of my job is meeting amazing people and I truly believe the work we do is all about human connection. I don’t see networking as a chore and instead see it as an opportunity to meet like-minded folk, people who challenge my thought processes as well as meeting contacts who may provide potential work for us. Being freelance you don’t have access to the L&D budgets you would have at an organisation so I find facetime with intelligent, creative and dynamic individuals really helps strengthen my knowledge base.
Nat: I used to think that running a business required a lot of cold outreach and learning how to be some sort of master-of-charm-sleazy-salesperson, but turns out that wasn’t the case at all. Both in terms of acquiring new clients and seeking support or advice, the most important thing is to build genuine, reciprocal relationships with people… just like in any other area of life!
I’m part of an amazing Slack channel of other freelancers, only two of whom I’ve actually met IRL, but they are a wonderful bunch who all share work, recommend each other for projects and help troubleshoot any issues you might not feel confident enough to tackle on your own. This sort of digital infrastructure just didn’t exist a few years ago but it’s certainly going to be a part of the freelance future.
Share your struggles – what do you find hardest about working for yourself?
Jess: It can be lonely and I often miss being part of an office culture. Which is why our community of like-minded freelancers and self-employed folk has been so important. It’s great to have people to bounce ideas off, talk through a tough client discussion you’ve had to have or simply reflect and ruminate on your learnings.
I also find it frustrating how freelancers are still left out of a lot of big business opportunities for learning and development. We’re constantly aware that we need to keep future-proofing our business so it can be challenging to get access to affordable training.
Nat: As much as I used to moan about it on quiet days, there was something quietly comforting about the structure of a working week where you had a set desk and set hours. Even though the culture of London media-land meant often working well above and beyond, you always had a barometer of when you had ticked the box of your allocated hours and switching off was that little bit easier. When you work for yourself that structure goes out of the window, which can be liberating, but can also make you feel like there’s always more to be done.
I’m learning to set boundaries for myself (like not always checking emails last thing at night or first thing in the morning) which is helping to create balance… and making sure I get out into the fresh air too!
Share your perks – what do you enjoy most about working for yourself?
Jess: Being in charge of my own success. I’ve always loved having autonomy and being in control of my own decision making. I also don’t have to compromise my values anymore as I can pick and choose the people I work with.
Nat: Completely agree with Jess. Being able to choose my own ‘learnings’ is another big one for me. We all know that stepping out of your comfort zone is the best way to make progress and working for myself means I have complete control over what challenges I take on. It’s scary at times and there’s nowhere to hide if something goes wrong but I definitely believe that you have to embrace failure as learning in order to grow and develop as a person. Elizabeth Day’s ‘How to Fail’ podcast is a great comfort when I lose track of this!
What are your top tips for anybody working for themselves?
Jess: I’ve got a few…
• Community: Community is key and so essential to combat the loneliness that can come with self-employed life. Reach out to people online, find IRL networking events and don’t be afraid to put yourself forward. We’ve met some incredible humans since starting our own business journey and we’re all the better for it.
• Focus: Work smarter instead of harder. Learn how to say no, structure your working week to get the best out of you. Try and give yourself some time to have a digital detox and avoid distraction. Don’t say “yes” to all client work unless it fulfils you, pays you well or helps strengthen your current knowledge base.
• Smart Decision Making: This only comes from learning. Attend events, read, have enlightening conversations with strangers, listen to podcasts… get stuck in! The better your decision making is, the better the outcomes will be.
• Personal growth: I’ve recently engaged with a business coach and mentor to help me level up and grow my confidence. I also invest and value exercise, getting enough sleep and spending time with the people I love. Value yourself and your business with equal measure.
Nat: Get. An. Accountant. Ours is a lifesaver and a good accountant doesn’t have to cost the earth. The amount of sleepless nights and uncertainty I’d have if I was doing it all myself is definitely worth the expense, plus it allows you to get on with what you’re good at. Similarly good accountancy software (we use FreeAgent) is a great way to keep track of everything and saves us a lot of time.
What role does collaboration play for you?
Jess: Collaboration is everything. A great idea is nothing without an amazing group of people helping you execute it. I love the term “democratic collective” the definition being that you prioritise the group efforts over your individual ones. It promotes working as a team without having to give up your freedom, ways of working or make you conform to a hierarchy you don’t want to be a part of. It also allows for independent thinking and contribution. So if the best idea wins, then we all share in the success of it.
Nat: As the creative half of the duo, collaboration is really important as part of my working process to be able to get the best possible result for the client. Jess is great at giving constructive feedback once I’ve had time to let the idea stew for a while and that always provides a better end result in the long run.
I did a Masters in Creative Writing before starting out in the world of work and the best thing I learnt during that time was not to be precious about your creative work or, in other words, don’t be afraid to ‘kill your darlings’.
What is the best project you’ve worked on since going freelance?
Jess: Our work with our client in the VR space has been hugely rewarding. I’ve had to really challenge myself and learn about a whole new industry (emerging technology) something that initially felt quite daunting. We’ve recently completed a rebrand and brand positioning project alongside an all-female team. That’s a rarity in tech – and something I feel extremely proud of. It’s taught me anything is possible.
Nat: I’m really excited about a project we’re working on at the moment. Our best work has always come out of the individual people we’ve partnered with, not the brands. We’ve been lucky enough to work with some incredible founders and individuals within companies who really understand the value that marketing can bring to a business if done well, and if you allow yourself to take risks.
We’re working with an incredible founder at the moment who completely shares our values and the project is on something we’re already very passionate about, how’s that for suspense?! We’ll be revealing all soon so keep your eyes peeled over @macandmoore on social to find out more.
What were you doing this time last year? What have you learnt or how have you changed since then?
Jess: We were still living in Amsterdam preparing to come back and embrace London living again! As a self-confessed control freak last year was transformational for me and as I’ve learnt the power of going with the flow and letting go. I felt so much stronger, clearer and grounded going into 2019 which shows how much all our hard work has really paid off.
Nat: It’s hard to believe that a year ago we’d nearly completed our 6 month stint in beautiful Amsterdam. Part of the challenge of moving there for me was to get more comfortable spending time in my own company, I think we’re so quick to distract ourselves and fill our time with other people that we can’t just…be. I think since coming back to London I’ve learned more about what direction I want to head in next and have more confidence in how I can get there.
Jess and Nat in Amsterdam
What one thing would you change about the freelance world and why?
Jess: Although there are some amazing resources for freelancers I still feel we’re a long way off being protected in terms of payment. We’ve had some amazing women recently stand up and challenge the way businesses treat freelancers including Marisa Bate, Casey Bird and Anna Codrea-Rado. By speaking up about getting fairer, better and faster payment I hope the industry starts to value the value freelancers can bring to the table. To find out more about what can be done to combat this unfairness and clue yourself up check out the #FairPayForFreelancers open letter, The Freelance Circle and IPSE.
Nat: I think the freelance world still has a lot of inherent privilege. A lot of the events or resources, or even things like hiring desk space come at a serious premium which is just not realistic for a lot of people. I’m incredibly lucky to be in a position to have gone freelance and with relatively low overheads which helped a lot but I know it’s not like that for everyone.
And it’s not just about price, some spaces are intimidating to people who aren’t used to spending time in them which means that certain networking opportunities aren’t as inclusive as they could be. We were lucky enough to work with the British Library’s Business and IP Centre last year and a big part of their work revolves around diversity, accessibility and inclusion for founders and entrepreneurs of all backgrounds, which we definitely need more of!